[dr-moshe-admin]

hi Shonna,

You may not be ready with the Vis Dialogue for some really tough cases. That’s totally fine and normal. Perhaps practice a little with friends and here through the program and get a little more confident / comfortable and then tackle more intense cases. I doubt that you ruined everything by laughing. That’s my hunch. You’ll have to get a sense of your patients. Are they relaxed? Easy going types? Do you sense a deep place of trauma there? I am not saying you should not do the Vis Dialogue, however, if it’s a person who is new, you don’t know their temperament, nor their issues, perhaps consider A) Asking them if they are up for it. Tell them it might be really intense. Ask permission. Then you’ll know you have the green light. B) Doing other modalities first until you’re more experienced and more trained.

And yes, start with the mind-body Holistic approach. the Lyme stuff can be addressed after, when you have a clear idea of what is stuck or not moving.

And try not to be so hard on yourself Shonna. Seems like a theme with all your comments. 🙂

🤓

[dr-moshe-admin]

Dr. Erica,

My gosh… I never was alerted to this question and you’re absolutely right.

The answer should be just False. I went into the settings, and both were marked as “correct” which was the problem. Thanks for the heads up about that one.

[dr-moshe-admin]

hi Erin,

This is the Three Step process that I suggest sharing with patients, especially in these cases, where they are aware of the pattern, and don’t think it’s true but have trouble letting it go. Check out the video.

https://course.holistic-counseling.ca/topic/module-6-additional-insights/#3step

For the lady who isn’t sure her belief isn’t true, a little more work needs to be done in the Dialogue to help her get clear that it is not true. If she still thinks it might be true, then she’ll not let it go. That’s for sure. The transition questions are to get a patient to realize their belief isn’t true. What is she attached to about the belief?

Module 6 Lesson 1: Additional Insights

[dr-moshe-admin]

hi Shonna

It sounds like you did well with what you said. This person has issues and they’re not comfortable dealing with them. I wouldn’t blame yourself about it. I would be a little firm and urge her to keep going, so that you can bring some resolution, if that is a possibility.

Put a little prayer out for her and see her in God’s hands, walking to truth, to healing, not blaming you or thinking ill of you, or anything like that. See her seeing things in the light of you doing good work for her.

Homeopathy sounds good. When she comes back, that’ll be nice.

did you do a good dialogue? were you getting stuck at some point?

[dr-moshe-admin]

I am not sure I understand.

Can you rephrase the question so that it is clearer please?

[dr-moshe-admin]

hi Mugdha,

Those points are a mind-body connection. They are related.

<<Lady had burning sensation in throat and belief she was carrying was dying is better than having no voice,>>

Dying is better than having no voice? In actual fact, no, it’s not. But for her, she feels that way. So what makes her feel that way? Burning in the throat is related to voice, right?

<< another lady had hip pain like needles pricking but belief was life is not worth living if one cannot be useful)>>

that is also related. Can you see how that is related? How would you further inquire to get her to see deeper?

[dr-moshe-admin]

Use hand gestures to interrupt them. Saying, “Hey, can I just get in here a moment?” In the notes, we didn’t really go over this part exactly, but I recommend you read page 20, which is this:

i) The Practitioner is in Charge:

Aphorism 84. Patient talks. Physician keeps quiet. Do not interrupt. Write it all down. Do not interrupt.

The physician keeps silent, allowing them to say all they have to say without interrupting them, unless they stray off to side issues.

Don’t let them go around and around, or on and on. Some people will do this if given the space. So, have a guidance in your mind, an intention, to get to the cause. People love to be listened to. It can be therapeutic for them just to be listened to, but it is not purposeful to just sit and be the listener, if that is the only thing that is happening. It is important to know that people can talk, without revealing anything. It is important to steer people in the right direction, and to bring up the stuff that makes up their problem. It is important for the practitioner to be clear on this and to be the one that is in charge of the direction of the dialogue – not the patient. If you notice that the patient is not going anywhere, they are just avoiding by telling stories, avoiding the issues at hand – then it is important to gently interrupt and bring the focus back toward going deeper and to getting to the cause of illness.

Venting is therapeutic but only temporarily – You can help your patients feel better, temporarily, by allowing them to vent, but if they return the next time, and they need to vent about the same issue, how much have you really helped them? So you have to decide if you want to be a shoulder to cry on, a sounding board, or a counsellor – therapist. Don’t let your patients go on and on venting.

[dr-moshe-admin]

hi Mugdha,

It’s a good question. There are really some advanced technique which are probably needed to help find that “right spot” to enter further down the rabbit hole, or to find the tendrils and focus on them to help remove the attachment to the belief.

For eg, what is the belief serving? Is an advanced question.

There are many ways and many things I try to do when I encounter someone who is stuck like that.

[dr-moshe-admin]

I find those past “done wrongs and i am ashamed over them” also hard to counsel.

It’s the same principles though.

She said: I was a mistake.

as a response to your great question – E: What makes you unable to say that to yourself?

so she cannot forgive herself bc she is a mistake.

did you pursue that at all? It seems like the way to go in this case.

[dr-moshe-admin]

hey Erin,

What a great case! Did she feel better after she hit that deep note of pain and was crying?

It’s a huge thing to uncover such a strong belief. I am nobody / nothing without relationship to others. Aka, I AM only if I am with others.

Or as a conditional I AM statement, I am in relationship therefore I AM.

I would spell out the conditional I AM and explain the whole spiel about how we truly are unconditionally OK, without condition, in who we really are, and that this is a conditional I AM statement. You can give other examples of conditional I AM statements and make sure she gets that. Then ask her what makes her have this condition? That she is NOT (I AM NOT) if she doesn’t have relationship. Where did it come from? Did anyone ever model this for her?

Whenever I get to this point in a Dialogue where the person says they have no self, or they cannot feel themselves, I keep them there until they can.. it’s wonderful. So just keep them there and ask them to connect with themselves. What’s stopping them? Getting in the way? Have they ever been connected?

[dr-moshe-admin]

Everything comes down to choice.

There is always the choice of what to choose – our true nature, the truth, Love, freedom of being, the I AM, and then some other sort of belief which limits the true self.

In horrible real life traumas, like heartbreak, betrayal, physical and /or sexual abuse, and other really hard human experiences, what I have found, which I have shared previously, is that the trauma itself is not what sticks, but some sort of issue because of the trauma.

There’s always choice. So with your patient’s focus on “something is wrong with me” emerging after her brother died, and he had shielded her, that’s it. that’s the key.

The pain, the loss of someone so dear, always hurts. but where it goes into pathology is with some limitation on the person’s own being.

eg my patient who lost her son. Gosh! I cannot even imagine. But the suffering was even more about – He was the only one that understood her.

Any trauma or loss squeezes issues to the surface. it forces us to deal with the ultimate question – who are we? What are we doing here? A master doesn’t suffer. A person identifying with their temporary impermanent self does suffer. That suffering pushes the person to try to find peace again. Peace comes from letting go. Letting go is based in the truth that we are, truly, OK, Fine, just as we are and need no external condition to be happy. It always returns to this point.

• This reply was modified 5 years, 6 months ago by  dr-moshe-admin.

[dr-moshe-admin]

That does sound like a good response Erin.

And Suicidal thoughts / ideation is certainly a “tread lightly” topic… but again, you have to boldly go where probably most people would not go.

Get a sense of the patient. Are they REALLY suicidal? Do you feel really concerned that they might carry that forward? Or are they just depressed and thinking about it? If there’s any doubt, make sure they have some support. If they live alone, with no one around, it’s a difficult situation. It’s risky. That doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t take the risk because NOT working with them might result in them ending their lives… where you might have done something. I always think HC is so darned powerful and helpful that we should be able to help even quite suicidal patients… unless they’re sooooo depressed that the dialogue leads nowhere. Then we need homeopathy and possibly other supportive modalities.

I know this might sound a little cavalier of me, but… it’s *those* scary questions that you want to discuss with the patient. They’re already thinking those thoughts, right? I mean, going into it with them when they’re seeking your help for their healing is not creating it… nor is it empowering it.

In fact – and this is the thing – it’s DISEMPOWERING those thoughts to open them up and give the person the chance to really discuss them. So talking exactly about it… everything about it, might really help the person realize they are not thinking / feeling properly about their desire to kill themselves. How do I know this? Because life is precious and it’s a gift and so being suicidal is always (with very few exceptions that i can think of) a mistake based in misperceptions, and it’s in these misperceptions (aka delusions / false beliefs) where we can really help people.

Feel free to come back here with thought s/ fears.

but really, going from 0% to 50% is huge.

nice work.

[dr-moshe-admin]

It’s a really good question.

Any one of those could work, but really, the scale of 1 to 10, really does work. People just seem to knw how to answer that, and in my experience, consistently.

You can always remind people, last time, you said, 2/10, how are you doing now?

[dr-moshe-admin]

I’m really glad to hear this Erin.

I wish Lou Klein was still teaching his homeopathic master clinician course. You might go to https://homeopathycourses.com/ and get in on some of those seminars coming up. Ask him about any webinars that might be appropriate for you.

British Institute of Homeopathy has some distance learning which is pretty good.

Also read read read. Lots of good books out there.

[dr-moshe-admin]

that’ll be nice. thanks.